Lessons That Travel Home

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0:43 KFOHD Radio at kfohd dot com. We dive into the real messy work of transforming our lives, leadership and organizations. Bring your hot mess and confusion, lead with clarity, courage, and com Together, let's strengthen our resilience, accelerating the health of ourselves, people, plan and profits. Now here's your host, Captain Dave, your personal regenerator. All aboard, Hello, and welcome to episode eleven of The Regenerate Show. Our theme this week is Lessons that Travel Home.

1:28 My guest is Mike Schadroff, one of my best regenerative life leadership and career coaching clients ever. We're going to be discussing his messy middle of his personal and professional transformation, how he pivoted from being a very accomplished private school teacher administrator a advocate for sustainability and regeneration and welcome all to Earth Week. Thanks Mike for reminding me of that. Hopefully we can all appreciate our mother Earth even just a little bit more today and throughout the week. He then was co founder and executive director of the Ripple Center, which helped youth get a leg up with mentoring and entrepreneurship and discovering how they might look at small business as a path forward in their lives. I found him on startups dot com, where he was facilitating a regenerative and sustainability business community practice. And there's something about Mike.

2:41 As you get to know him, You're going to get to know him and love him as much as I do, because he is the most authentic and vulnerable person I think I've met in a long long time. And smart, Oh my gosh, smart. I turned to Mike when I try to make sense of this crazy world that we're living in. In fact, we had a great chat over the weekend about a podcast that I had listened to about the US around Israel and Middle East challenges as well as challenges of our youth, which we're going to be talking about shortly. And what Mike really leaned in on with me was rediscovering. I think he knew his core values, but he really leaned in to see if those were really true for him and discovered some new ones.

3:29 We'll be talking about the power of core values as well as his ekey guy, his reason for being and how he attracted I think a really really compelling career for him. He's starting where everybody has to start, you know, at the beginning. But he's got so many strategic ideas and fascinating, ambitious plans for this organization that he'll be telling us a little bit about. So, without further ado, please welcome Mike Schadrov. Hey, David, Hello there, Hey, beautiful introduction. I appreciate that. You're very welcome. It's it's from my heart to yours in the audience. I love your background. Tell us a little bit about where that was taken, because you're quite a photographer and your lessons that travel.

4:23 Sure, yeah, I mean and again in appreciation of Earth Week and you know, as a as a lifelong environmental educator at my core and of course appreciator and steward. I decided to throw this background up today. This was taken a couple of years ago my fiftieth birthday. Did a little cruise with my mom and my sister to Nova Scotia and this was just this beautiful spot. Everything was in full bloom, and you wanted to wanted to share it with you and with the audience today. Yeah, that's so appropriate. I really appreciate it. And what a blast of colors. My goodness. So we always like to start off the show with what's that one thing that you love to do that lights you up more than anything else?

5:15 Oh gosh, to be honest, get outside. I just there is there is an energy that you know, goes right to my soul when I'm outside. I you know, always talk about and you you said in your introduction about uh empowering youth and and just all of the different things going on in the world. Sometimes it is so important to disconnect in order to reconnect. And I find that when I am, you know, immersed in nature and of course surrounded by people, and we are nature at our core, you know, it just allows me to have things melt away to find those little miracles everywhere because they are everywhere. Uh, and just appreciate and sometimes I have to admit, I will have technology with me so I could take some great pictures, but you know, just just appreciate the things that we're surrounded by.

6:19 I love that. And you've captured quite a bit of your travels in the lessons the travel substack that you write more frequently than I write in my substack. So good on you. So yeah, before you became this global education advisor and in your current role, before founding and leading the Ripple Center, before your private school teaching and advocacy for the environment, tell us little bit about what what forged you? What's your origin story? My friend? Great question. Well, if you'll indulge me, David since A yeah, and it is earthquak. I figured I wanted to frame my origin story with a tree as a metaphor because I feel like that's what I am now, which is what you are, what we are. We're trees. In some ways, my life has branched out in so many different directions, both above ground what the world sees, and of course below ground what I know that exists. Some branches are still growing, Others are a little stunted, some have stopped growing altogether. But these branches, all of them exist because of opportunity I pursued, some by fate, some as a result of the weather, good and bad. And then at the core of it, there's my trunk, my foundation, right,

7:50 this solid through line, and that is my why, right, my seed, the one that continues to spread through roots and branches. If you had asked me three months ago, what's my why, and I know we've had this conversation, I would have said the same thing that I've been saying for years, and it would have just been people in planet. But really, my why it's a little deeper than that. I think the people in planet is a result of my why, which is curiosity, connection, and stewardship.

8:31 And because of those I have multiple origin stories. Right where each branch has split becomes a new origin. So discovering the physical world around me, the people that inhabit it, the opportunities to exact change, to travel, to educate, to regenerate my own mind and soul. And I can't dismiss the fact that no matter how far out my branches go or how high they go, that leaf at the top spot is still connected and communicating with the root that is the furthest underground, so that you know, in conjunction with the theme of your podcasts and of our conversation, this entire tree is the messy middle that you know, that dash that we see on headstones between the year of birth and death. Like, that's the messy middle. And here's the thing. Messy can be beautiful. It it mostly is.

9:34 And I think the difference between sustainability and regeneration is just that, right that to me, the word sustainable kind of implies being a little sterile, right. The synonyms for it are to sustain, to maintain, to continue, to endure, whereas regenerate that implies renewal and revitalization and rejuvenile. So if I had chosen to live a sustainable life right now, i'd be working in television, I'd still be in the closet, and I would be insulated by living and socializing in communities that were mostly white, Jewish and middle class. But curiosity, connection and stewardship allowed me to travel a very circuitous path and grow all these branches in different directions, so I could certainly get into like you know, some of the major decisions that happened along the way, and you know, the very ones. It's funny a lot of people go through life and they go, oh, you know, things happen for a reason, but then they have to try to sit and dissect in that moment, what was the reason?

10:47 What was the reason? You introduced me to a great book, right, the Surrender Experiment and The Soul Untethered by Michael Singer, and it reinforced and reminded me of this whole idea of like, we don't have control over what happens to us. What we can control with practice is how we react to those things. Right, So like, we don't need to figure out what was the reason this happened in that moment, because sometimes that won't reveal itself for a few years from now. So, you know, growing up, you know, just my brief real like the Physical Origin story. I had always wanted to be in television from the time I was a kid. It was just something I wanted to do.

11:34 I love telling stories, I love writing, I love putting together stories, and I wanted to be a part of that magic that you know puts stories out there. Fast Forward ended up at Rutgers broadcast journalism. New York City is my background, and while I was doing a couple of internships, I also had a couple of pivotal people that came into my life. Richard Hefner, he was the first chairman of the Movie Ratings Board, had a show on Channel thirteen PBS called The Open Mind, and his whole class was communication and human Values. Fifteen students conversations each week for three hours on a Monday morning about books we had read. And another professor who only taught I think two semesters at Rutgers, happened to have them in a summer class. Alfred Edman Junior, who was editor at large is to this day of Black Enterprise Magazine, and he opened up my eyes to the let's just the broken system of journalism and the portrayal of people of color and minorities in the media. So while I had these two individuals, I now is also experiencing firsthand what it was like to be in the television studios, and long story short, the amount of sexism and racism

13:05 that was built into the culture of television was beyond what I wanted to contribute to. And despite the fact that this was my dream it was all I had thought about for twelve plus years. I knew that in that moment, I had to decide did I want to live a life that was focused on my wants and needs or did I want to focus on a life that was going to contribute to the greater good? And so I ultimately made the decision to not go into television after graduation. And this decision was made maybe weeks a month before I graduated. So naturally, what did I do?

13:48 I went and got my series seven and became a financial planner right and again, you know, I could ask myself the question at the time, why am I going into sales? You know, what am I going to need to know? All this sales? You know, I was. I was dealing with a lot of people's finance and for it was one of the greatest educations I ever had, and one of the few real educations I ever had about financial literacy. Uh and I was one of the last rookie standing. But I also began to realize that I am putting people in investments and this is this is mid late nineties, into into investments that went again my own environmental values, and at that time, there were no green funds and you know, alternative investments. So after nine months, ten months, I said to my boss, you know, thank you for this opportunity, but I am going to be moving on to my next career. And when he said, what's that, I said, I have no idea, but it just isn't this so long story short, I ended up starting.

14:58 I decided to become an on entrepreneur, started a small publishing company did unofficial guides to colleges. First one I did was the Rutgers Students un Official Guide to College. At the time, it was the fastest selling trade book in Rutgers history, and I was planting trees to offset the printing of the books in nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety nine. Again my trunk that I was growing, and these branches were really about my why right. I was curious to learn more about different people, different industries. I wanted to make connections that were authentic, but I also wanted to make sure I was stewarding wherever, you know, all the ground that I walked upon. So after doing that for a couple of years, I realized it wasn't quite what I wanted to do. And I always said I was going to go back after I retired from television and go into education. At the time, I had actually been running some youth groups at my synagogue, I had been doing some teaching. I was a camp counselor.

16:04 I said why not, you know, let's go into education a little sooner than later, and did my student teaching with student teaching fifth grade. The first week of my student teaching was September eleventh, which was an amazing which was an amazing lesson in how important social emotional learning and safety, the feeling of safety in the classroom, especially as a brain science, is essential for learning anything else. And ended up teaching fifth grade in the public schools in New Jersey. And what was great though, is I was able to incorporate my experiences in television, in entrepreneurship, in finance into the classroom. And one of the projects I did with students was, Hey, let's take the curriculum we've been given and up it. I want you all to learn how to start and impact business. I want to talk about budgeting, I want to talk about mission statements.

17:08 I want to talk about you know, all of the things you're going to need to know. And that that was the seed that ultimately led to me starting the Ripple Center. So I'll stop there for a moment and see if you want to ask me any questions, because I know you and I have had amazing dialogues that go in different directions, but you can see already like this path, even though it might not make sense while you're on it, it's all connected. Well. Three three things that I'd love to just pull a couple threads quickly. One love the metaphor of the tree. And as you and I both know, there is so much magic that's in the soil under you know, not visible as trees communicate to one another. Trees communicate to other you know, fungus and my sea and all sorts of other chemistry. The magic of that, and so I suspect that community is a big part of your origin story as well. I know you spoke a little bit about that. But I think during these challenging times for young people, you know, who are often on their smartphones, and I have to catch myself. It's so easy, isn't it to forget that we're better together. We're kind of pack animals. And so what you did in nine to eleven that first day of teaching, oh, my gosh, you know, dealing with that situation and really honoring people's emotions. That

18:41 just speaks volumes to me because most new teachers, as I've been told, they follow the lesson plan that's been given them, and that's not you. So I love how you innovated in the moment and created that psychological safety for your students to work through that. So that's the same and thread. And the third thread that I wanted to pull was how what what wise advice about? It's really fraud, I think, to try to figure out your your why in the moment, but instead you listen to your heart. I suspect in your head and and you made these I'm a sailor, so you made these tacks.

19:27 You you pivoted two quite different career and job interests, but then to be able to integrate that those those various interests and then looking kind of in the rear view mirror, say oh yeah, look, that's that's the theme that kind of weaves these these experiences. It's about learning. It's about sharing what you learn. I know that you are an educator. You know in in your DNA you love to learn. You love to share what you learn and to create community around that learning. So that's that's my kind of quick recap of this origin story so far.

20:10 Did I get that anything wrong? Correct me if five minutes tell. Me that was a great synopsis, you know, And there's, of course, there's so many little pieces that would be so easy to dismiss and ignore. And again even the environmental and the social justice piece. Those when you are vulnerable and authentic with who you are and what you want to see and do in the world, there is a real attraction. And you know, long story short. Once I started exploring in the public schools these projects, I asked myself, is there such a thing as a green school? Like? Are people doing green schools? Well? I ended up going one summer on one of my travels to Columbia ice fields up in Canada, and I'm talking to a gentleman who notices my Acadian National Park jacket and we are talking.

21:06 We get off this vehicle and see that the ice melt is just flowing down the glacier and I said, geez, you know, students need to know about this stuff. I'd love to open a green school one day. And he goes, oh, you should talk to my sister. She works at a school called the Willow School in New Jersey. Well that was the school I had been researching, and that is where I ended up teaching for five years. And so right like I could have just said, oh, thanks, sounds great, but you know, you have to be open to conversation, to meeting people, to talking in order for opportunities to kind of reveal themselves. Well, what a great pivot, I think to this second third of our conversation, which is how did we meet and what was it that you were really looking for from our collaboration so that you could integrate all of the experiences you'd had up to that point, but now wanting to have a little bit more predictable cash flow and income, maybe some benefits because your work at the Ripple Center, so it fed your heart. With funding ups and downs because of government priority changes and things, it's hard to sustain a nonprofit. So do you want to talk a little bit about how that first conversation that we had when I was walking the dogs, and a

22:38 little bit about the work that we did together and how it helped. Sure and just quick brief background information. You know, I, after my career in education, had made the decision based on the fact that I wanted to do something on my own again, started the Ripple Center, which was a nonprofit organization for eighteen to twenty four year olds who wanted to become a social entrepreneurs. So, how do you build a business make all the profit you want, because that's what capitalism is, but at the foundation of it, not at the expense of people on planet. And when I was building this, I joined startups dot Com, had a great relationship with the principles there, and they invited me in to start doing a workshop called People Planet Profit to which again the universe works in the most amazing, beautiful, mysterious ways. You showed up at one of the workshops, and when you said that you were looking to explore the idea of regenerative coaching, I said, Ah, it's so good to hear somebody talking about regeneration. I was talking about that years ago with my students, and you know, regenerative practices and even like a regenerative you know, being a regenerative human being. And I feel like in that instant you said to me, you stayed after Mike, Hey, would you want to just talk offline? Because I had

24:10 mentioned that at that point also the nonprofit I had started, the funding was you know, just not coming through and I was going to probably be pivoting. So yep, you me your dogs in the park. We were we were on the phone, and you essentially told me, you know, your amazing background and the experience you had in your messy middle and career, and also the coaching you had been doing, so that I had never ever considered needing a coach because I always felt like everything happened to me, things just kind of flow that. You know, I knew what my strengths are, but I was really trying to figure out how to align them with my next chapter.

24:56 And you said, I can help you do that. And it was amazing because you and I started working together and you really set me on a a linear path of discovery, which I had all the pieces of, but I didn't have all the tools and I didn't have the framework. So right you we were visited my personality assessments, We clarified my core values, which by the way, I keep by my desk at all time. We refine my ekey guy right like you helped me to discover along with I have to say, now you know my chatbot, which which was a great tool that you gave me for putting together information that I know that my ekey guy is I thrive when empowering others to grow and aligning my work and values that regenerate both people in planet.

25:56 So you I love that. That just speaks exactly to who you are. Yeah, and you you helped me realize it's not about searching for a job you needed I needed to do some ecosystem building right that I was looking for alignment and that whatever the job was was really more about a career that I could grow in. So the fact that we were just speaking the same language and we had the same energy, and you know, any any any variable that came up in our conversations we could talk about for twenty minutes or more. You know, it was.

26:40 Two talks are dangerous sometimes, yep. So I mean, yeah, I mean, if you're in the messy middle of reinvention, I can say from experience, having someone like David walking the line side alongside you will change that trajectory. Thank you, and just for our audience's sake, ekey Guy is a Japanese framework and it's kind of four circles that are connected like a ven diagram. If you remember your old high school math, what are you really gifted at doing? What are you passionate about? What does the world need at this time? And how can be well compensated?

27:31 And compensation can be monetarily, But as Mike has been describing, you know, finding the form that really lights him up and fed your your head and heart needs. And when those four circles are as close together as possible and aligned to your point, I think you do make your work your play. Now. It was a very challenging time to be looking and attracting a new experience and you went through, my gosh, the roller coaster of emotions for several weeks. And I since learned Mike that it was a really, really difficult time because of all of the uncertainty in the business world. People that are hiring are kind of putting that hiring on pause because they don't know about the tariffs, they don't know about other government policies that might influence whether they should hire or not.

28:39 The whole generative AI and organizations not hire right now while they explore jenerit of AI. So there were a lot of headwinds that you had to overcome. And I have to say my listeners that Mike, you were perhaps the most persistent that I've ever met, even better than me and I'm pretty darn persistent. But you found a way. And I think many of our conversations were me just saying, keep going, my friend, never surrender, never give up, and you didn't, and you you attracted a lot of interesting opportunities, but nobody was kind of willing to pull the trigger until if you want to describe allow what you've discovered, you know, the form currently that your that your career and job is taken. You want to describe a little bit about that, and then we'll jump to a commercial just shortly.

29:39 Sure, yeah, what you said, it's funny, David. Before coming on, I just wanted to quickly go back and review some of the process that I was with you through. And for each application, I created a folder. I had over one hundred folders of places that I had targeted and you know, places that I had interviewed for and made it you know, a few rounds in. But ultimately what was great is that I was looking to target the space, the industry, the form that I really wanted to be in, and not just apply to everything. And that was something that was at the intersection of education, of travel, of stewardship, of you know, people connection and it you know, I ended up with c i E. The Council on International Education Exchange as a global education advisor. So I have the opportunity now to help young people, specifically I'm in their high school division study abroad with the help of you know, scholarships and the ability to to you know, transform their own lives.

30:50 That I think is such a great fit for you at this time. And I think also what I hear from how you're approaching this work, you're really create community. You're you're inviting alumni the c i E experience because you've not been on one of these you know, youth programs through CIE. So you're really being a good i think, orchestrator an experience to help potential high schoolers that might be open to summer experiences or a week long experience, and you're you're inviting the alumnus to talk about what it really was like, and in the process, you're you're reconnecting the alumni to c i e E. While you're helping create these new tree branches or maybe more roots tree roots across all the schools that you go into.

31:52 Is that is that sound like I'm over selling this idea of community. No, No, that's absolutely a key component of it. I mean, you know, I always said if I could have a business card that just said, you know, professional connector, that's what I would do. So I now get to you know, I'm immersing myself in an existing community. I'm growing the community, but looking for ways to make sure that that the members of the community stay connected. So it's through the teachers, the counselors, the administrators, the alumni, the potential participants, the guardians, you know, all of these individuals create this community of you know, of global opportunity.

32:41 And what's I think so powerful of what you've just shared is you're you're not really selling these travel experiences. You're you're inviting people to experience even though they're not physically doing the travel, but through the power of storytelling and the alumni and your own stories about your own travels just maybe not c I E. E. You know that were you've not done one of those programs, but you've done many others, and you've led student programs, uh, you know, environmental and other learning, travel and the young people that are listening in the audience, they're going, Oh, this would be so cool. I want I want to be a part of this, and they basically they they sell themselves on the program.

33:37 Yeah, and it's you know, it's it's there's that element. And then there's also the flip side that I'm learning is that I'm I'm working with a lot of students that come from under resourced communities, that come from challenging financial backgrounds, and they have convinced themselves that this is something they can't do, that they're not going to be to afford to do it, or just you know, the experience itself is going to be too much. I had this when I was in Pittsburgh last week. I was invited by someone who runs an organization for children that have housing and security issues that are either CouchSurfing, they're homeless, they are you know, staying with other relatives, and they have this safe space that they could come to a few times a week a teen night and just you know, learn from a lot of other different people. You know, they get help with guidance and counseling and writing backgrounds, but they're all enrolled in high schools. So he said to me, Mike, I want you to come and just meet the community. You could talk to the students. So I got to sit down, David and just ask these students like, hey, look at this map. Do you have a dream maybe of three to four weeks in the summer at one of these places. Tell me about it.

35:04 And so when you start having these conversations, I'm saying to a young person, one of the kids, I said this exact thing. He's like, oh, this isn't something that I can't leave. I can't go there. And I said why not. He's like, oh, I don't know. And I said, let me ask you a question. Do you like apples? He said yeah, I like apples. And I said, well, where do apples grow? He's like, well, on trees? And I said where on the tree? He said the branch. And I said, well, listen, my friends, sometimes you need to go out on a limb because that's where the fruit is. Right, lean into discomfort, because that is where learning takes place for us, for you, for everyone.

35:46 Such a powerful metaphor, my friend, that is awesome. Well, hey, take a minute and a half ish and tell us a little bit about if I was a parent for example, and my childhood just part of your community for a half hour, forty five minutes at my school, at the kids school, what would you want to tell me? Sure, So let me lay the foundation of against. CIEE is the Council on International Education Exchange a nonprofit organization that serves study abroad students in high school, which is the division I'm in, and college international exchange visitors, and also educators teaching abroad. And the mission has remained the same, and I'm going to read it verbatim. It's to help people gain understanding, acquire knowledge, and develop skills for living in a globally interdependent and culturally diverse world through meaningful exchange programs. So what I love is The organization was actually founded in nineteen forty seven as a direct result of World War II. At that time, the question was asked, like what are we going to do to be able to create lasting peace in the world, lasting peace in the world, And the answer was, we need to send students and teachers abroad to have firsthand experiences with people

37:16 and other nations to become global better, to become better global citizens and ambassadors for America. So the first group of students and teachers that actually traveled to Europe went on decommissioned naval ships that were going to pick up American soldiers returning from the war. Now eighty years later, right, CIEE has centers around the globe. And again I'm going to speak on behalf of the High School division this summer. So the High School Division started ten years ago with forty students, and this summer we'll be spent sending over five thousand students to study in three to four week programs.

37:56 And we distributed nearly fifteen million dollars and scholarships, so students can choose from over one hundred and forty different courses covering language, immersion, arts and culture, STAM, business, social change. And when I tell you, this is the opportunity I wish existed when I was in high school. You know, now in my new role as a Global Education advisor, I have Pennsylvania and Delaware or this all the schools I cover. I get to provide students the opportunity to discover themselves and connect more deeply with people and cultures through global experiences and education. So I encourage everyone to go to cie dot org to find out more. It really is again like how do you connect with people on a personal level, And it's by leaning into discomfort, having curiosity, wanting to make connection, and then stewarding those relationships.

38:59 Wow, I'll tell you it brings back such fond memories of when between my junior and senior year in college, I was I wrote an essay and was invited to spend five weeks with fifty Americans and fifty Japanese for five weeks as part of the Japan America Student Conference, which, like CIEE, was founded shortly after the Japan American conflict. And peace through mutual understanding is the motto of GASK Pan America Student Conference. And to this day, those relationships that I developed and the insights that I still draw inspiration from, I mean it was transformational.

39:49 Yep. Absolutely, And again, you know, David, all of the all of the ability to surrender, even though I didn't know I was surrendering when I was younger. Now you know the wisdom that experience, the maturity, and we still struggle with it. Right when things happen, you know, I need an active reminder to like, hey, take a breath, like breathe, Like, let's decompress let's understand that stuff happens, but all of those experiences, what I'm doing now, I don't think I could do as well without all of the things that happened in the past, right, even the exposure like to you know, with all of the traveling that I've done, both domestically and abroad, the meeting people, the not being afraid to not know something and to go and ask or to maybe there's someone that has a different point of view that you do, a different culture, a different background. But for me to be able to say to myself, there was a mentor that once said to me, and I love this. He said, Look, we know the things that we know. I know that I can speak intermediate Spanish. There's also the things that I know I don't know. I know that I can't speak a lick of auto it. And then there's the things

41:22 I don't know that I don't know. There are things that I don't even know that I don't know. But unless I ask you questions. And I don't go into a conversation to win, but I go into it to learn. That is like where the magic happens, and if it's okay, I'll transition into the story I've shared with you, you know. And that's the other thing I loved about our coaching. David evolved into a friendship because when I went into this coaching, I'm like, how am I going to get this guy to find me a job? And it was really about how am I going to give this guy a window into my soul so he can help me realize where I need to be. And your your listening skills and your open mindedness, right is what allowed me also to say like, oh guess what, like you know there there's there are so many opportunities here. But one of the stories I shared with you along the way is that right, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a liberal Jewish guy and regardless, and it doesn't matter religion. You know that the stuff that's going on in the Middle East, I think has impacted a lot of people spiritually, personally, emotionally, you know, et cetera. And in a post October seventh world, right, I'm supposed to be blanket upset with Palestinians and with

42:57 you know, Muslim extremists and you know, et cetera. Well, I had found a connection online through technology and one of the things it said in This person's profile was that he was a proud Palestinian. But I knew that there was connection there because I was looking for, you know, certain work in technology, and this is what he was offering. I said, you know what, I have two choices right now. I could just say moving on to the next person and keep it easy, or I'm going to reach out. Well, this individual is one of my absolute best friends. Now, like absolute best friends, we talk almost every day, and it was because when we first connected, it had nothing other to do than with the shared humanity that we have.

43:58 What's what is life like for you in your home? What is Tell me about your nieces and your nephews and your siblings and your relatives that have moved to the United States. Tell me what are the challenges that you guys face as a family. And then it's like, oh, can I ask you a few questions about what's going on? And suddenly you realize that you know, there's no black and white to all this, because there are some just like there are people. Not every American is the same, right, not every American has the same opinions. So I he and I joke around now at the end of most conversations we go, oh, humans, right, humans, everybody is an individual.

44:51 And when I remove all those labels from somebody and just want to learn about them as an individual, are there going to be things that, Yeah, maybe we don't see eye to eye on sure, right, But when you start to immerse yourself in other cultures, in other religions, in other name the demographic, right, name it, you realize at the end of the day, most people just want the same thing, right. They want what's best for their families, they want to live peaceful, happy lives, they want to be able to afford to live, they want to connect with other people, and there's so much beauty in that.

45:35 And going back to what you were saying, David earlier, with the technology and you know how people feel. We're in an algorithm, you know, right now, and we're going to be fed what this algorithm sees that we're going to consume the most. We have to find a way to break the algorithm, right, go to even if it means forcing yourself to just go to other sites, other opinions. And maybe it's hard to digest, but we can't live in bubbles. And that's again what I love about the new role that I have is that I am helping young people to go to a new location, meet students from around the country that are part of our program, you know, lived with live with a host family or in some group housing, immerse themselves in the culture, and suddenly forget all of that. It's those other skills, which is what I love writing about in my lessons that travel sub stack. It's those those other things that you bring home with you that are about wow. I had to lean on figuring out how to communicate differently. I had to problem solve when I didn't know where I was or what I was doing. I had to get out of my comfort zone and ask for help. I

47:05 realized that the stranger is now my friend. Right. One of my favorite things I think Abraham Lincoln, when he was trying to talk about support for the Civil War, he had said something about one of the goals really should be is meeting with the other side. How are we going to connect with them? And somebody said, wait a second, mister Lincoln, isn't our goal to destroy our friend our enemies? And he said, the way we destroy our enemies is by making them our friends. So if you were to give advice to Middle schoolers, high schoolers, university, technical college, trade school, young people about breaking the simulation, breaking out of smartphone and social media, get outdoors. What else would you want for our next generation of leaders to do next?

48:11 Oh, there's a litany of upgrades and changes. There's some things we're doing really well. But I think, for one, we have to recognize and I you know, I think that is I was so fortunate to innately recognize that every single student I talked to was their own unique individual and that they not everybody learned the same way, Not everybody was interested in the same things. Yes, my job was to expose them to as much as possible to help them determine what it was that they may or may not be interested in, to try it, they would discover new things. But what I what I when I left the public school arena to go into independent schools, It was because I was seeing the writing on the wall and I was afraid of all of the testing that was coming down the pipeline. Right testing standardized, and by the word standardize means everyone fits into this same standard right standardized testing about certain subjects. And then once those things aren't tested, and if funding, if teacher evaluations. Right, if all of that is determined by the results of this test, well, where is their room then for music and arts and culture and the art of communication and even you know, like I said, media literacy and financial

49:44 literacy and all of the things that you know, young people need to be exposed to growing up, global citizenship. These are huge, huge topics, and I think that if we could find a way to a like, figure out other ways to assess students on how they're they're doing. There's ways to use portfolios and to put together a full package. Is it going to be a little more work, Absolutely, But is there any more important job than being an educator of young people? Yeah, Mike, our time always flies when you and I chat.

50:24 I'm so grateful for your wisdom today and being so authentic and vulnerable in your own story. So for our next port of call, our theme is adapting to grief, and my dear college buddy and dear friend, Chris Dechi is going to be talking about his personal transformation as a result of the death of both his talented and troubled son Diego, as well as his beautiful and talented wife Anna. So please join us for episode twelve next Monday at ten am Pacific, one pm Eastern and six pm Central European time on KFOURHD dot com, as well as on your favorite podcast a couple of days later on behalf of On behalf of Mike Chadra, our producer, Rebel Medler, our entire Talk four media team. Please stay healthy, stay safe. We need you. Hey, consider taking one next action from what Mike and I were conversing about getting outdoors maybe, or talking to an old friend or making a new friend, being curious. We're better Together.

51:43 With Captain Dave on k for HD Radio. We invite you to give yourself grace and grace the messy middle and see you every Monday at ten am Pacific time. Until then, you got this