May 4, 2026

Transform Your Identity

Transform Your Identity
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Season 1

What truly defines you — and can you change it? In this REGENERATE episode, Capt. Dave sits down with dear, dear friend and sensei, Dr. Frank Wagner. He’s the co-creator of Marshall Goldsmith Stakeholder Centered Coaching® and a pioneer in leadership development since the late 1970s.

They’ll explore the deep roots of personal identity and what it actually takes to transform it. Together they unpack how the world's most successful leaders leverage Stakeholder-Centered Coaching to improve!

REGENERATE is broadcast live Mondays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). REGENERATE TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

REGENERATE Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/regenerate--6862974/support.

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Behoy, Captain David Gallimore welcomes you aboard the Regenerate Show

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live Monday's ten am Pacific on KFOHD Radio at KFOHD

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dot com. We dive into the real messy work of

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transforming our lives. Leadership and organizations. Bring your hot mess

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and confusion. Lead with clarity, courage and components. Together, let's

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strengthen our resilience, accelerating the health of ourselves, people, plant

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and profits. Now here's your host, Captain Dave, your personal regenerator.

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All aboard.

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The Boy and Happy Monday. Our theme today is transform

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your Identity and I am so excited to welcome doctor

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Frank Wagner, a dear, dear, dear friend and sense who

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is going to sit down and talk with me about

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transformation both personal and professional and organizational but through the

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lens of stakeholders. He is the co creator with doctor

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Marshall Goldsmith of stakeholder centered coaching. And I didn't know

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that Frank back in the eighties had collaborated with Marshall

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and Paul Hersey in creating situational leadership for IBM. I

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was a new leader at IBM and found situational leadership

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to be so eye opening. It was like veil had

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been lifted on how do I look at people, really

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look at people from a situational perspective, from a task

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or initiative perspective, and help guide them and coach them

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and mentor them. It's still a tool that I use

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every day in my life and with my clients. So

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we're going to explore the deep roots of identity, what

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it actually takes to transform it, including the messy middle.

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And we're going to unpack how the world's most successful

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leaders used aakeholder centered coaching at both the individual and

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team level to get measureably better and how you can too.

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Here's our promise. First, I have some fun today, because

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when we're laughing, we're learning. I want to we want

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to leave you inspired, and we want to leave you

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with one thing that you can apply I today or

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tomorrow before you go to the next busy part of

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your day. So I invite you to grab a pen.

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Transformations happen here. So Frank started his consulting career center

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for leadership studies. In the late seventies, he became a

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partner at Kelt, Goldsmith and Boone, providing leadership development to

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Fortune five hundred companies, and then with Marshall co developed

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a highly successful Excellent Manager program, originally for IBM and

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then for many other Fortune one herd companies, And the

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last couple decades he's been overseeing the design and training

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of coaches, thousands of coaches. I think I listened to

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an interview with Brendan Burchard, who's the CEO of Stakeholders

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Centered Coaching, that you've surpassed over five thousand coaches certified

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coaches of which I am still very much a student

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on my way to mastery of Stakeholders centered Coaching. And

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I will tell you that I got to know Frank

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at an even deeper level as we get together with

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a number of other kindred spirits through the one hundred coaches,

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we have something called a awesome LPR Life Plan Review

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like a Mastermind group on Fridays. We've been doing that

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now for four and a half years and it has

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helped me through so many ups and downs. So without

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further ado, please welcome my dear, dear friend and sense

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doctor Frank Wagner.

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Well, thank you, David, and good morning or afternoon or

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evening wherever you happen to be when you're listening to

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this thing and you're not live, or whether you are

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live right now. Thank you for the introduction, David, a

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little too long for my liking. And I do want

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to correct, you know, one thing, when you said Brandon

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who's now running the Stakeholder centered Coaching, it's it's Murguard.

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That's the way you would pronounce his last name. And

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also want to say that I have higher expectations of

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this than I guess David does. When he says we're

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going to leave you with one thing, I want to

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leave you with a number of things. Maybe you can

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choose one of them. But in terms of our discussion

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this morning, as we're on the West coast of the

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United States, we've got, you know, some very interesting stuff

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to talk about. Now. I want to start off by,

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you know, right on the title of this thing, it

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says the word live, regenerate, and you know, people smarter

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than me have said that words have meaning. Now we

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can always assume that when I'm using a word, that

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meaning that I have is the same as everyone else

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who's hearing the word. And that's why I just want

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to start off myself, since I'm just now kind of

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this first time on this particular podcast, is what do

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you you know? Kind of short description, David, how do

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you do? How would you define live regenerate?

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Rank? Thank you? Language is powerful and we want to

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be clear. So how I define regenerate different from the

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word sustainable is sustainable is do no harm and often

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to continue what people have been doing, but do it

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more consistently, more sustainably. Sustainability also from the perspective of

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produced recycle, reuse and being helpful to community and planet

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and profit. It was clear to me back in the

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summer of twenty twenty four that if we were going

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to solve some of the challenges that we are experiencing globally,

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including psychological lack of safety and lack of engagement, happiness challenges,

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certainly increased drought and fires in the West as you

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and I both have experienced, and just all of the

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challenges that many young people are facing today due to

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mental health and stress that we couldn't just sustain what

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we're doing. And doctor Laura Storm, sorry, Laura Storm, not

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a doctor. Laura Storm did a ted X talk that

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I listened to the summer of twenty four talking about

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regeneration and how she defines that very quickly, is to

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nurture and improve and make healthier. And in the context

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of our climate, how do we act more like nature.

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Nature's been around for three point eight billion years, Mother

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Nature's learned a thing or two, and so if we

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can follow the logic of life, how do we as

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leaders really create environments where people can flourish, where individuals

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can discover their ekey guy, their reason for being, and

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align their work with their ekey guy. So that's what

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then led to this Regenerate podcast, trying to pay it

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forward to next generation leaders that might not be able

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to afford you or I bill rate, but we want

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to pay it forward to share best practices and great

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you know kind of nature vetted nature validated theories and

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tools and approaches and frameworks. I think stakeholders centered coaching

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is very much a regenerative approach because the stakeholders themselves

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are providing that ecosystem for people to get healthier, not

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just to sustain, but to improve.

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Does that help? Yeah? It helps? Well, again, what is

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the outcome we're looking at here? And it sounds from

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you know, the definition you got from a Ted talk

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your number of years ago is around not sticking with

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the way things are today. But you are. You are

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talking about the change process. But this is a change

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process for good that you're going to be healthier, You're

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you're you're going to be you know, I'll add a

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few terms here, you're more balanced and you have a

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better life, and that doesn't mean the way you are today. So,

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you know, Mike, when I was asked to talk about

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you know, is really a kind of this podcast? Is

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your identity transforming? Your identity? Is your identity static? I

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guess it can be, But generally successful people aren't static.

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They're always evolving, they're always getting better, and ideally they're

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they're happier, they're more content, and they have more meaning

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in their lives. So that's what we're going to focus

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on here today.

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So you think about Ben Franklin healthier, wealthier, and wiser.

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Yes, Ben Franklin was a fascinating character. I mean, I

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love all the phenomenal things that he wasn't a perfect

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human being like the rest of us, yet he did

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some absolutely amazing things. And for instance, you one term

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you mentioned early on here is humility. You know we

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have in our process is which we built into the

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repertoire of a leader as we work with is they've

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got they got to have courage, humility, and discipline, and

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all those things are worthwhile things. By the way, always improve,

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always regenerate in this so inters your identity. Let's go

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to your identity. There's two types of identity that you

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can talk about, and they're interrelated. One of them is

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your public identity. This is what other people would say

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about you. Oh, David Gallimore, he has this great podcast

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he does and he's a guru round live in a

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regenerative way on this thing. I mean, that'd be your public.

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Part of your public identity, you also have a private identity.

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And a term I actually kind of prefer to use

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is your self concept. So I want to define what

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your self concept is. But before I do that, I

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just want you to think, for a moment, how would

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you yourself, if you're listening to this ident define my

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either personal identity or my self concept. What what would

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be the definition of that? And then I'm going to

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give you the definition that we use. Just take a moment.

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Then well, well I'll give you at least my answer.

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So you're talking about what is that definition as opposed

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to what is identity?

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Yeah? Well, well yeah, I mean, by the way, because

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it's such things that come up as okay, once you

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also define it, where does this come from? So you

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know the the uh okay, I'm going to move on

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right now is the way we define and this is

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what we call an operational definition. And David had mentioned

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one of my mentors, Paul Hersey, who was the developer

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with Ken Blanchard many decades ago, of this framework called

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situational leadership. He would say, you know, everyone can have

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their own definition of things, but when you're talking, it's

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nice to know what the other person means and what

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and when they're using a term the call an operational definition.

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The operational definition of your self concept is the thoughts

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and feelings you have about yourself. I assume you're walking

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on a mountaintop. There's nobody there, no one else is

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saying anything. You're talking to yourself about yourself. That is

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your self concept, and that is your internal identity on

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this Now the question is is you're going to have

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something you're saying Where did that come from? I mean,

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where does all these thoughts and feelings you have got

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yourself come from? And I first learned that you talked

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about this concept with Marshall Goldsmith, my good friend. I've

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known Marshall since we started the PhD program together at

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UCLA back in nineteen seventy one. Became very good friends.

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We've done a lot of collegial things together through the life.

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This he's been I am so much better off because

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of this guy. He's amazing. And he tells a pretty

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fascinating story about this self concept. And it stems from

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something both he and I went to, not at the

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same time in our PhD program, but we both went

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through this program called sensitivity training. And and in the

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sensitivity training, you sit around a circle. There's no agenda.

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People just talk and they and it's it's one of

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these things that leads to deep insights about yourself and

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and Marshall was talking about himself in this in this

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PhD program course, and he's and he said, I have

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no mechanical aptitude. See that's a self description. I have

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no mechanical aptitude. And and and he said, and and

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his the mentor in our program, Bob Tannebaum Uh, who

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was like this guy that floated off the room. He

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was like one of these guys in a narrow coat

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that looked like he was some sort of like psychic.

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And he and he says to Marshall, where'd that come from?

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What what do you mean? How do you know you

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have no mechanical aptitude. Marshall thought about it and so

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that he kind of digested where that came from. Marshall

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grew up in a small town in Valley State called

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Valley Station, Kentucky. I guess, somewhere between Louisville and Fort Knox,

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like you know, one of these like one street towns.

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His dad ran the ran the the gas station that

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was there. And and his mother was the first grade

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school teacher. By the way, she's the first grade school

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teacher until Marshall was born. This is old style America.

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Marshall's father believed that once they had a child. She

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couldn't work, so she was a teacher. Now she had

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she taught one person now, her son Marshall. And and okay,

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great outcome. The guy's brilliant and and so. But she

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also told him, you know, if you're using our technical

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term now when he used you know, I have no

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mechanical after she says, you have no mechanical aptitude, Marshall,

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you're not going to be like your father and and

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and his father bought into it. Yeah, you're not going

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to be like me and thing. So guess what. Here's

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the here's the critical of where your your your personal identity,

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your your self concept comes from. And that is we

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tend to become with significant other people tell us we

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are a very important word here. Significant For some people,

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parents are not significant, right they there's not it's their

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peer group or whatever they define as significant. So Marshall

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early on was told, don't pick up a tool, Marshall,

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who bad things will probably happen to you. You have

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no mechanical aptitude on this thing. So now he's growing

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up in Kentucky now young teenagers in Kentucky. Two things

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are important to him. Girls and their cars. Now Marshall's

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father ran the gas station. He had the lift that

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you could put a car up and work on it.

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So Marshall would bring his friends over and they would

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be working on their cars and they say, Marshall, you're

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a great guy, but don't touch my car. Right, So,

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now it's not just Marshall's parents. Is Marshall's parents and

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his best friends that are saying Marshall, you have no

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mechanical aptitude. Now, a pivotal event occurred in the later

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sixties where Marshall had to take the Induction, an exam

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for the United States Army, you know. And so he

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takes the exam and part of the exam was like

257
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this multiple choice test where you had to kind of

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name that tool. Marshall scored in the lowest one percentile

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of anyone who had ever taken that test. So now

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here's marshal self concept. My parents tell me you have

261
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no mechanical actors, my friends tell me I have mechanical

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and now the United States Army, with a specialized test,

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tells me I have no mechanical aptitude. So he said,

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why do you think I have no mechanical aptitude? Well,

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by this way, when I heard the story. I'm sitting

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in Marshal going, wait a minute, what does it take

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to have mechanical aptitude? One is, you have to have

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a logical mind to kind of work with things and tools.

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Marshall scored a perfect score on the math section of

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the SAT smartest guy I know in terms of being

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a logic guy. But the other think, by the way,

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you got to have eye hand coordination. Now this goes

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back in the day before all these video games we

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have today. They had a few things like Space Invaders

275
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and Donkey Kong and that kind of by the way,

276
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and pool. Now, pool is a is something that requires

277
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both kind of figuring out the logic of this the

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physics of what I got to do in this thing,

279
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But you got to do too. Marshall basically made money

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in college planning pool. So I'm confused. The guy has

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no mechanical attitude. He's brilliant with being able to kind

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of use the stuff a tool, and he's he's got

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the skill set to do it. By the way, and

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let me tell you the wo The last thing about

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marshal story before I turned to me see this is

286
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I was listening to marshall teller's story about this class

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he went to and and uh, and I started thinking

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about myself. But the last thing is Marshall got married.

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When I met him, he was single. Then he has

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a wonderful wife for now, I don't know, fifty six

291
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years or so. Laida. When they first got married, she

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was a She was a psychologist working for Loyola mar

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in Mount University. Marshall I now had our PhDs. We

294
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were assistant professors of management at Loyal and Marymount University. Right,

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they bought a house in Westchester where the campus resides

296
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in West Los Angeles. And they got their first house

297
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and one day the phone rings. It's lighter, she says,

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Frank washing machines having a problem. Could you come over

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and try to help us. You didn't want Marshall to

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touch the Washington machines. So now is white He is

301
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telling him he had no mechanical act. So the thing

302
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:34.279
is it's powerful about who the significant other people that

303
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were in our lives that helped frame that internal dialogue

304
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you now have for yourself. Now, let me tell you

305
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.839
my story. My Sir's a lot shorter. I was born

306
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an identical twin, and I was always called the baby

307
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of the family. Now, my twin brother was seven minutes

308
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older than me, and that made me the baby of

309
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the family. He was also sort of like Marshall that

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was brilliant, you know, straight a's max all national tests

311
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he ever took, by the way, among his degrees, he

312
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.359
has an engineering degree, he has an MBAs, he has

313
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a law degree, and he's a Certified accountant you know CPA.

314
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And by the way, he got a CPA never taking

315
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an accounting class. That program requires four sections before you

316
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can get that thing. Very few people score all four

317
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.960
in the first try. Yes, who did my brother? Now,

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I'm growing up with this guy, but I'm going to

319
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go back in time. We're about like eight years old,

320
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eight or nine years old. I emulated my brother. I

321
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remember we were going to buy a dog, our first dog,

322
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a German Shepherd, wonderful dog we have forever. We love

323
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this dog. I was so excited about it. My father,

324
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my brother and I want to get the dog. We

325
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get to the place where we're going to walk in

326
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the backyard get the dog. I remember watching my brother's

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footsteps and stepping in his footsteps. My identity is I'm

328
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not as good as my brother, but I got but

329
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he's my model. He's he's kind of who I am. Well,

330
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a few years after that, my father took my brother

331
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and I to a movie. This is the old days

332
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where the movie theater showed one show, one point in time.

333
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You wait in line outside box office opens, you go up,

334
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get your tickets, you go in, you know, go to

335
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a movie. Well, my father, very very good father, rarely

336
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got mad at at either one of us, never really

337
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raised his voice except for a handful of times. And

338
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by the way, this is the only time I ever

339
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saw him do it publicly. We're standing in front of

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the theater. I'm not just like watching, waiting for the

341
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thing to open up, not paying much attention to things.

342
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And all of a sudden, my father turns to my

343
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brother and he he's pointing his finger, and my brother's

344
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name is Michael. He goes, Michael, you may be as

345
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smart as can be, you don't have half the common

346
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sense of your brother. That's what Frank Wagner's identity started

347
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that day, and to this day is how I describe myself.

348
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I'm a guy that kind of operates in common sense. Now, look,

349
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why did I pick up profession like teaching leadership? And

350
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coaching leadership. Fundamentals of leadership hasn't changed in billions of years, right,

351
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it stays the same. So I mean I don't have

352
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to keep on a shelf life and knowledge of always

353
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changing new things in terms of what I'm doing, and

354
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.000
all of my advice to people is basically common sense

355
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in what I do. Now here's the one thing too,

356
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Let's look at something that David and I work with

357
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a lot. David, do you ever have to give somebody feedback? Yes? Indeed, okay,

358
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do you ever give them what Marshall coin for our

359
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.279
field feed forward suggestions? Do you ever do that?

360
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:31.559
Yeah? I think that's such a powerful reframe because you

361
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.319
can't change the past, but you can change the future

362
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by being more aware of what is needed, what positive

363
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:44.720
behaviors are needed to accomplish something more easily, more productively,

364
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.200
more smartly.

365
00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:50.480
Yeah. Well, see the thing is is, now here's the thing.

366
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What feedback to people accept? What feedback to people reject?

367
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They reject information that's inconsistent with their self concept. Now,

368
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:05.839
as an example, someone self concept is if you're a man,

369
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I'm not handsome. If you're a woman, I'm not pretty.

370
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And someone says to you oh, David, you're such a

371
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handsome person and you think I'm pretty damn ugly. Are

372
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you going to accept that feedback? And you say that

373
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person has no clue I'm not handsome type of thing.

374
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So you know, the point is is that we tend

375
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to accept information that's inconsistent with our self concept and

376
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.200
reject information that's inconsistent with our self concept. Okay, stop

377
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:38.279
right now thinking about yourself, regenerating your self concept or

378
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.720
your internal image. You a good self assessment. Why am

379
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.599
I saying these things about myself? Where did this come from?

380
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.880
And by the way, is this something I want to

381
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:52.079
keep or is this something I want to change? Right, David?

382
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And in fact, to that very point, Frank, going from

383
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the corporate world to being a solopreneur happy to sell

384
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:05.559
myself and feeling it's okay when people say no or

385
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.359
they ghost me, it's not a reflection of me per se.

386
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:13.119
It's they're just making a choice for them. I can

387
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:17.000
take myself identity way back to when my sister and

388
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.960
I were trying to sell Christmas cards to make some

389
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.400
pen money door to door and getting no thank yous

390
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:29.000
and doors slammed, and then all of that behavior of

391
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:34.400
trying to sell, got reinforced is I can't sell? Yeah,

392
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:40.119
it's an amazing challenge to rewire that self perception. How

393
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:45.079
have you done better but still have another several layers.

394
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.920
I think of the onion to go, oh yeah, yeah.

395
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.799
I mean, it's funny how we think that some people

396
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:54.359
are just born salespeople. And maybe there's true, there's truth

397
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.279
in that because they so early on got that has

398
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.640
or self concept and they'd hone their skills over time,

399
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.559
and they and you know, and they don't mind the

400
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.839
rejection and they and they and they actually are very

401
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:07.240
successful at their sales. So you know, you got to

402
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.400
myself limiting myself in my view of myself with my

403
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.160
internal image. That's the key. And is it is it

404
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.240
serving you? Well? See, I think you know, David, because

405
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:19.960
you're you're the first person that coined the phrase to

406
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.880
me that I now easily recognize that it's a messy middle.

407
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:24.960
You know, you know a lot of times when you're

408
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.920
in the messy middle, you like to kind of sit

409
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.599
there and blame the environment and everybody else. Interview. Oh,

410
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.880
it's because it's it's because of the war between America

411
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:39.519
and Israel and Iran that's that's why I'm in this

412
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:45.039
messy middle. Okay. Is it contributing to us having challenges

413
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.240
and problems in our lives? Yes, But again the messy

414
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.200
middle is is like where where am I coming from?

415
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:55.200
With this same? How do I real in an effective manner?

416
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:55.599
So?

417
00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:59.720
Yeah, and well well not even but something my dad

418
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.960
we can Well, I'm accountable because because I voted for Trump,

419
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.440
or i'm or or I'm washing my hands of because

420
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.119
I didn't vote. Okay, well that's fine for Rochard. But

421
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.160
but but our messy middle is how it's affecting us. Yep.

422
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:16.079
Well, I use the definition of accountability to mean that

423
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.559
by which I attract I attract this into my life.

424
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.160
Whether I'm responsible or not, that's not the same thing.

425
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.799
But accountable is given what's happened, what can I do

426
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.400
next to make this a better situation?

427
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.960
Right? Well, again, being accountable, what does that mean? And

428
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.559
and uh and what it really means is not thinking

429
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:39.680
about it? Is what are you going to do? So

430
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:43.319
I think we should shift to some tools, some some

431
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:47.400
some approaches that can help us with our identity.

432
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:50.640
And to that point, Frank, I had offered to you

433
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.279
instead of running a little commercial that I run about

434
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.160
halfway through at this point in the podcast, do you

435
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:01.000
want to just take a couple of minutes and describe

436
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:07.000
the Marshall Goldsman stakeholder centered coaching process and if that's

437
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.559
a pivot then to the tools that you wanted to introduce.

438
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.839
Is that fair? Sure I can do that, And again,

439
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.240
just give me the signal if I'm talking too long

440
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.480
on this, because I mean I've done programs that run,

441
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:25.160
you know, sixteen hours on that. So the the you

442
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:29.200
got to take you to put the muzzle on the

443
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.960
teacher here. The Sinkler Center coaching was developed by my

444
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.480
friend Marshall Goldsmith and then he became very successful at it,

445
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.559
and at one point in time he asked me to

446
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:44.039
design and teach other people with the methodology. So that's

447
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:45.880
my That's how I got involved in this. And I

448
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.920
take no pride of oh, I invented this thing. You know,

449
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.079
I'm not even I'm not a co inventor of it.

450
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.920
I'm a co refiner of it to make it operational.

451
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.759
That's maybe something I've contributed. Sinker Center coaching really has

452
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.839
kind of five components to it. It's different from what

453
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:07.000
has been historically in the consulting world coaches who generally

454
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:09.720
have one on one interactions with the person they're coaching.

455
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:11.640
It's almost like, I don't want to say it's therapy,

456
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.680
but it's behind closed doors. Nobody else knows about it.

457
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.440
And by the way, sometimes it leads to some very

458
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:20.160
positive outcomes. What Marshall did has even make it more

459
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:25.720
public because he's smart. See, remember we have self concepts.

460
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:28.119
We also have a concept of who someone else is,

461
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.960
so we have a concept of their identity. So like

462
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.599
I can say, well, you know, David's a wonderful human being,

463
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:39.599
but he never listens. He just doesn't listen. Now, a

464
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:42.799
coach comes in to coach this person and they work

465
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:47.559
on listening, and guess what if you had a documentary

466
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:50.359
of this person, they are listening better. But the person

467
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.319
who thinks they're a bad listener is going to say,

468
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.839
you never got better. He doesn't listen any better behind

469
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.720
closed doors, right, And they don't pick up on the

470
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.759
data that reinforced their view of the bad listener. They're

471
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:03.680
looking at all the still things they think is but

472
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.039
they're not listening. So what Marshall did is is we

473
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.440
create this thing. What we why it's called stakeholder centered

474
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:11.920
coaching is that we really turn the people that work

475
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:14.319
with an individual into the coach. And it has to

476
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:17.119
start by the leader having a goal. You have to

477
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.839
pick something to improve. We generally have some methodologies to

478
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.240
help this person think it through and they pick a

479
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:28.000
goal to work on their leadership. And before that's done,

480
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.000
and then they have a goal, they got to check

481
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:32.640
get a check mark from whoever they report to. So

482
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.400
if you might be a you know the the I

483
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.480
don't know, like VP of sales, but you report to

484
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:43.359
somebody and that person that you report to has to

485
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:47.119
say good choice, work on that goal. The other thing

486
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.359
you do is and even before you meet with your manager,

487
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.000
you decide who are going to be the relevant people

488
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.440
in the organization that should be involved to work with

489
00:28:55.480 --> 00:29:00.279
me close enough and cand observe my behavior and by

490
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.119
the way, might important for them to see you differently.

491
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.480
So you get a list to a goal, a list

492
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.200
of stakeholders, you get a sign off from management. That's

493
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.880
that's step one. Step two. Stakeholders have got to understand

494
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.559
what they're doing. They got involved. Enroll the stakeholders. They's

495
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:17.640
got to be the leader's got to be rehearsed. I

496
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.160
like to have the leader, the leader do it themselves.

497
00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:24.079
My post close friend in colleague who was my partner

498
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.640
up until twenty twenty two when he died, he often

499
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:31.640
was the one that was explaining this to the stakeholders. Right. Well,

500
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:34.039
so there's no one way to do anything. So but

501
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:36.359
in terms of mine, I rehearse with my leader. They

502
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.759
go in and they actually ask for help from your stakeholders.

503
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.480
Here's what I'm asking you to do. I'm working on

504
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.279
my listening or I'm working on delegating more effectively. In fact,

505
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.960
I had a guy that was over this week last

506
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.920
weekend who I coached many years ago, and he was

507
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.720
a fellow at Intel, and I've known the guy for

508
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:57.279
over thirty years now, and he just came back from

509
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:59.680
Abu Dhabi where he's been working as the number three

510
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:03.000
guy in technology in Abu Dhavi. And and he he

511
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.319
told me how valuable what I did with him, which

512
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.119
was stakeholder center coaching way back. It took him where

513
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.680
he is and he's still using it today. So so

514
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.039
you pick your goal, you pick your stakeholders, you enroll

515
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.079
your stakeholders, and and then and they got to buy

516
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.720
in they have a choice of saying no or they

517
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.359
could say yes. But now they're committed. If they've said

518
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.480
yes on this thing, then the step three is to

519
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:28.880
build an action plan, and he gets who gets to

520
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:33.000
build the action plan the stakeholders. So the last thing

521
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.559
a leader does after enrolling them, they're saying, look, take

522
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:39.279
a take a day or two and think through, how

523
00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:42.920
do you think I would do a better job of listening, delegating,

524
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:49.160
communicating more effectively whatever the the leadership behavior is, because

525
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.480
because actually the goals are often not behavioral, right, and

526
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.319
so so they we need a plan that actually as

527
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.400
things you do that that's when change occurred when you

528
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.559
do things differently. So they all send in a couple

529
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.200
and by the way, this is not anonymous, because if

530
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.319
you're going to send someone an email, there are two

531
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:11.359
ideas for you. You know who said it. Now we build

532
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:14.599
the action plan as best we can around the stakeholder's

533
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.039
idea of what the leader should do. And I always

534
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:20.359
keep personally a little record of every comment made when

535
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:22.519
that first time they were asked to give suggestions. It

536
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.559
may not make the action plan, but I'm going to

537
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.920
make sure that that leader does that. Whatever that person

538
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.680
said at least once or twice during our time here.

539
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.200
And and by the way, people can say, oh my

540
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.519
go what I say isn't in the action plan. Fine,

541
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:37.799
but if it's a good action plan, they're still going

542
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:42.319
to get benefit from it, right. So then now there's

543
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.240
an action plan which, by the way, the action plan

544
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:47.079
which the coach works with them to put together, goes

545
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.480
back to the stakeholders. And this is what they're supposed

546
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.000
to pay attention to. Now. Basically, remember their instructions are

547
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:55.440
anytime you see the leader doing a good job on

548
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:58.960
this action plan, they just let them know, right, be specific.

549
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.119
Every time they mess up, let them know, right, give

550
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:04.680
them a suggestion on how to get how to do

551
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.400
it better. Then the next the next point is is

552
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.680
the leader every month has one touch point with each

553
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.960
of these people so that they there's a personal connection here.

554
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:19.599
And then the last thing is we measure results. Anything

555
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.759
important gets measured. So what we do is they get

556
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:26.079
a like my typical coach is a year halfway through

557
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:27.839
its six months and at the end we do this

558
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.079
thing called a mini survey. It's not it takes about

559
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.559
you know, it's like your hotel. How's it do? How

560
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:34.599
do we do with you. It takes a couple of

561
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.079
minutes to fill out there working on one goal. Right,

562
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.279
they have the action plan to make their sense and

563
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.319
on a scale of minus three to plus three, the

564
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:47.000
middle score zero means no change did what? What score

565
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:48.559
do you give them? And then and then a couple

566
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:50.599
of you can still go now a little feedback and

567
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.480
suggestions if you want, with some written comments. They get

568
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.640
the feedback. And guess what, I've never had a leader

569
00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:58.960
that didn't get better. And here's the thing that that

570
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.119
surprised me is the last thing I'm going to say.

571
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:03.559
When people used to ask me, well, what do you

572
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:05.839
do for a living? I said, well, I'm a leadership coach.

573
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.960
This in the last twenty years. I was a trainer

574
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.279
of this stuff for the twenty years before that. I said,

575
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.000
I'm a behaviorist. I help leaders change your behavior. I thought,

576
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.440
that's what I did. I don't say that anymore. I

577
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:21.960
say my job is to change the perception of the

578
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.559
people around a leader that they're getting better. So because

579
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.160
if they are the ones that are validating whether the

580
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.759
person got better on this thing. And finally, what I've

581
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.519
noticed is it changes relationship. So that's that's that's my

582
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.200
definition of a stakeholder center coaching.

583
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:43.079
That's terrific, Frank. And what rebel Our Producer has put

584
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.640
in the banner is the contact information on how to

585
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:51.519
learn more about stakeholder centered coaching idea for that.

586
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.319
So the do do you make another some sort of

587
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.720
thing or do we kind of move on to the next.

588
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.759
Yeah, No, let's let's talk about tools around transforming identity.

589
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:05.720
Okay, Well, I want to go to another person, like

590
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.480
Marshall's met. I've never met the guy, and I got

591
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.079
to say, I'm I'm you know, I'm one of these

592
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.239
people that say, well, see, I should read the next

593
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.199
best selling book this person wrote, and I haven't read

594
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:18.079
any except for the very first one he wrote. He

595
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:20.840
was a medical doctor at Harvard and he ended up

596
00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.119
and he ended up writing a book called the Cheli

597
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:26.639
Checklist Manifesto. Love that. See. One of the things that

598
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:30.159
we do also include as a tool in our toolkit

599
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:35.840
is a daily checklist. You know, typically for me, it's

600
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.880
the items in their in their action plan. Right, they

601
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.119
should be checking in with themselves, how am I doing

602
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.000
on this thing? You know, buses, minuses, you know, neutrals,

603
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:48.360
missed opportunities, whatever they should be. They should be checking.

604
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:52.000
That's a that's a that's a discipline that you use

605
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.480
to get better. By the way, I have three, personally,

606
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.239
three checklists I do every day. I'm not going to

607
00:34:58.280 --> 00:34:59.760
give you all three of them, but I will give

608
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.159
you one of them in in uh in a little

609
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:06.119
bit here now a tool. Gwandhi wrote the book Checklist Manifesto.

610
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.840
He was a doctor at Harvard. He got enamored with

611
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:14.519
how effective commercial air travel is and and and and

612
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:18.000
one of the main reasons is they do checklists, religious

613
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:23.039
checklists before every flight. On this thing, he thought, hmm, creatively,

614
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.079
you know we're not perfect of as as doctors and

615
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:28.679
surgeons and all that stuff. And you know what, our

616
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:31.599
success rate isn't always so good. Let's put it. Why

617
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:34.760
don't we experiment with checklists? So he got between Harvard,

618
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:39.880
he got seven other medical schools or to to put

619
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.159
in a test. They're gonna run an experiment. We're gonna

620
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.039
do checklists prior to surgery with our surgeons and and

621
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.360
uh and typically it will be the head nurse that

622
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.519
will ask the questions, and the lot of these questions

623
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:57.920
are directed towards the surgeon. And now One of the

624
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.679
questions on the checklist was did you wash your hands

625
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.239
prior to surgery? Now, I don't know if you've seen

626
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:06.599
this or not, right if you maybe you read the

627
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.760
book yourself or heard someone talk about it, blew me away.

628
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:14.119
Both the outcome of this research project and and and

629
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:17.719
what was the answer number one answered by doctors on

630
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:20.400
the question did you wash your hands? Right? And by

631
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.920
the way, there's a preto distribution of how a number

632
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.280
of answers, But what was by far the number one?

633
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:28.719
Think for a second, if you haven't seen it, especially

634
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.360
if you haven't seen it, what is the answer?

635
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:30.960
Yeah?

636
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.199
That that those that didn't wash their hands thought they

637
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:37.360
had until they were asked, did you wash your hands?

638
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.360
And then they had to me a kolpa no, I didn't.

639
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:42.639
Yes, no, But that wasn't the number one answer. The

640
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:45.519
number one answer was I don't remember.

641
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:46.559
I don't remember.

642
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.000
Yeah, And see and by the way, I've only had

643
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:50.960
one operation in my life with my on my neck,

644
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.800
the neurosurgeon, and and uh and see what by what

645
00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.000
I sourced my surgeon. I got the best guy around

646
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.559
in Portland, Oregon area for my surgery. And and uh

647
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.599
that I do not remember to me, I'm happy because

648
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.079
you know, I want him thinking about not washing hands.

649
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:10.039
I want to think about what he's doing in my neck.

650
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.599
And that's generally what they're doing right now. The question

651
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.320
is many people who says, I don't remember, they don't

652
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:18.280
have no data on this, but I bet you've more

653
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.840
than half washed their hands. But guess what the answer

654
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.159
what they had was a protocol. If they said I

655
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.519
don't remember, go wash your hands. Now, this was done

656
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:32.400
in eight hospitals, and and and these are the results

657
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:36.639
of the of this little experiment. Complications from surgery. Now,

658
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:40.320
if you, if you ever had surgery, do you say, God,

659
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.719
I just love being in hospitals. I hope there's some

660
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.880
complications so I can spend more time here. No, I

661
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.000
don't think so. Complications fell thirty six percent. No, I'll

662
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.000
just round round this down a bit here. That means

663
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.719
means one thing, you have one third less chance of

664
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.480
getting complications if they use checklists prior to surgery. But here,

665
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:04.119
let me tell you the bigger one. Fatalities. What percentage

666
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.480
of fatalities went on in these hospitals when they're using

667
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:11.320
checklists fifty percent. Now, by the way, I live in

668
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:15.719
a state of Oregon where there's there's a physician assisted suicide. Right,

669
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:18.519
there's protocols you got to follow to do this thing,

670
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:22.039
but you can actually choose I'm done, you know, in Oregon,

671
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.679
and if you follow the protocol, that can happen well.

672
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:29.000
By the way, So here's my advice to you. If

673
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.760
you need surgery and you actually want to die, ask

674
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.440
the question, does this surgical team use checklists or not?

675
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:38.599
And if they say, oh, no, we use checklists, say oh,

676
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:40.599
I'm going another hospital. You know, I want to up

677
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:43.079
my chances here. So but I think most people don't

678
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.920
want to die and they don't want any complications. Checklists

679
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.800
work great. It works great in surgery teams. Guess where else.

680
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.719
It works great with us and ourselves in our lives.

681
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:53.719
So you know, you want to start thinking about a

682
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:57.880
tool we use is called a daily checklist. Now I

683
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.360
will tell you my list, my probably my well first

684
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:02.800
of all one of them. I will just say I

685
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:06.119
was raised Roman Catholic. And again you know, I don't

686
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.719
go by my legal name, which is Francis, but I

687
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.239
was named after the patron saint in the in the

688
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:14.559
in the in the history of the Catholic church, and

689
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.679
that was Francis of the Sissy. Now he has a prayer,

690
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:21.639
you know, you know, his his his daily prayer, which

691
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.280
I that's the first thing I do in the morning

692
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.239
when I wake up, I do that prayer. And it's

693
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:26.920
a pretty dangerous. I'm not even I'm not going to

694
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:29.199
recite it that. If you're interested, go look up the

695
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.400
prayer of Saint Francis. See what it says. See if, if,

696
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:35.079
if that isn't a pretty damn good checklist he did.

697
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.000
I don't know how many millennial ago when he was

698
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:40.360
around on this thing. My one is is, oh, first

699
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.440
of all, let me say what is a good checklist?

700
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.760
In the book, the Czecklist Manifesto says the list should

701
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:48.760
be short, and but that means that's that's like writing

702
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.360
a good book. It's short enough. The terrible part is editing, right,

703
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:55.800
So what you can only pick the things that are

704
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.719
most important. Now, in a surgical team, it was most important,

705
00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:02.880
that are dangers to overlook, like washing your hands. But

706
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.320
sometimes it can be just a positive, most important thing

707
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:09.400
for you to do. So it's short. It focus on

708
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:14.079
the most important things, and it's easily to understand. Never

709
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:17.159
talking about words that mean everyone understands what's being asked

710
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:21.079
here in your daily checklist type of thing. So here's

711
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:24.639
my list. Number one, did I do enough to maintain

712
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.800
my total health? Now I'm going to get back to

713
00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:28.639
this one, but let me give you the other ones. First,

714
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:32.719
second one, did I choose to be grateful today? My

715
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:38.320
third one is did I do my best to uphold

716
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.440
the dignity of every person I meet? The fourth one

717
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:47.599
is did I make a positive did I you know,

718
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:51.119
did I make a positive difference in someone else's life today?

719
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.199
See that I only have to do it once and

720
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:55.480
I can check it off, right, Did I make a

721
00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:58.039
positive difference? And the last one is did I do

722
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.760
my best to avoid regrets? And those are my five items?

723
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.480
So and by the end of the day, I ask

724
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:05.719
it when I get up in the morning, and and

725
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.519
then I have to do a little check mark at

726
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:11.079
the end, I mean, have any regret today? Did I?

727
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:13.760
Did I make up positive for anyone today? By the way, Dave,

728
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:15.599
I've already made it for today. I got an I

729
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.239
got an email from Caroline Santiago saying how I'd helped.

730
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.360
She wanted to get my thoughts on how to handle

731
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.800
this difficult case. And she said, Frank, it worked like

732
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:29.239
a charm what you said. So I had made a

733
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:32.079
positive difference for Caroline. Now the positition wasn't today that

734
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.719
I just got the email confirmation of it type of

735
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.599
thing and ideally to know if you've made a positive

736
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.360
difference and someone says, that's been very helpful to me.

737
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:44.320
So you know, the thing is is that's my checklist.

738
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.239
And by the way, checklists need to be regenerated. I'll

739
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:51.559
just say this is not the checklist I started out with.

740
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.800
I've refined it, refined it, refined it. As an example,

741
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.280
Marshall Goldsmith has got a number of things written now

742
00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.639
where his mantra is every item should what did I

743
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:05.039
do my best? But anything Marshall suggests I'll try out

744
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.599
and eight percent of the time I open it, I didn't.

745
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.000
I tried this. Did I do my best? I guess

746
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.280
I'm a tough critic. It's pretty disappointing every day if

747
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:16.360
I've got five things on my checklist and I've said

748
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.360
I've said, no, I didn't succeed five out of five

749
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.679
every day of the week. Now I did keep two

750
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.239
of them. Do they do my best? To hold the

751
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:27.880
dignity of every person I meet. That's a real fing

752
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.599
I could have been just wonderful to everyone I met

753
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:32.800
except for one person. And see, you talk about the

754
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:35.559
messy middle. Sometimes the one person is my wife and

755
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.840
uh and so yeah right, yeah, yeah, and so the

756
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.440
thing is this, And then the last one is did

757
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:47.079
I do my best to avoid regrets? See most of

758
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.400
the research on people, and there's a number of people

759
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.840
have done this about people on their deathbed, you know,

760
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.599
give advice to the earlier you you know, what would

761
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.480
you like to have done differently? And and and it's

762
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:00.239
and the thing is it's the regrets. I mean, I'd

763
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.880
like to have a life of no regrets. I actually

764
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:05.639
have much less regrets, I think than most people because

765
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:09.840
it's a right in my face, daily question I'm asking myself.

766
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:12.280
So the question is are you willing to kind of

767
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.079
start off? And it took me about three years to

768
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:18.119
get to the list I have now, but it's been

769
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.800
pretty stable since. But if I'm going to regenerate, it's

770
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.119
probably going to change sometime in the future. You got

771
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.559
to always be willing to assess there is there a

772
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.199
different way, a better way, another way to do things.

773
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.000
David your thoughts.

774
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:33.920
I tell you, Frank, it is one of the most

775
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:39.079
challenging self disciplines after I've tried it, and I think

776
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:43.280
I initially had thirty one rows on my mar really

777
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:48.840
chase list, and I still use it, and to your

778
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:53.119
earlier point about regenerating it, so I usually keep it.

779
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:56.159
You and I love the power of three, the symmetry

780
00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:00.880
of that, So I have one, I do my best

781
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:05.440
to experience health and happiness? Did I do my best

782
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:10.400
to nurture relationships that matter? And the last one is

783
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.440
did I do my best to do what I.

784
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:18.039
Said great list? So that's been ask a question, David,

785
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:19.760
do you go to bed? Do you go to bed

786
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:21.719
and sleep better at night? If the answer to those

787
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:22.639
three things are in.

788
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:28.079
The affirmative, Oh my gosh, much better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Frank,

789
00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:31.119
time is never our friend, and I hope to have

790
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:34.480
you back if if you're willing. But is there one

791
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.519
thing that in the next minute or two as we

792
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.400
wind down that you haven't yet said that you would

793
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:45.360
love our listeners to maybe take into their heart something

794
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:47.880
that you think would help them transform their identity.

795
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.920
Yeah, there's there's a number of people that that, like

796
00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:55.719
Mitchell Levy is one of the top in this area.

797
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:58.760
Is hit Thinkton calls it your ce pop. This is

798
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.079
how would you describe yourself like in I don't like

799
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:05.119
twelve words or less or something like that. Well, I

800
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:09.039
in all the work I was doing. One of the

801
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:12.000
people that I really admire never met the guy. It's

802
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:15.559
his writing. His name is Hans Celier and Hans Celier

803
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:20.039
is born in Austria. I think his father was Hungarian,

804
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:24.679
but his mother was Austrian. Snuck out of the Europe

805
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:27.920
at a certain point in time in Lanta and Canada.

806
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.679
He's a medical doctor and he was a researcher, and

807
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.159
he's the guy who today is considered the father of stress.

808
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:39.400
He actually nailed what the issue of stress medically, what

809
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:44.679
that means, and was ridiculed by American Medical Association for

810
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.079
ten years. Now it's accepted practice. Well, at one point

811
00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:51.840
I'm reading about the guy. He gave his philosophy of

812
00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:54.519
life and it was modeled after his father. His father

813
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:56.559
was a doctor. When he was growing up in some

814
00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:02.199
small town in Austria, his father would would help anybody

815
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:04.519
and not and if they couldn't pay, wouldn't charge him.

816
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:07.440
But every day, like when little Hans would open the door,

817
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:10.880
there'd be some eggs there or some milk or something

818
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:12.920
like that, you know, and you know, well not even

819
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.880
a note with it, right, So this was his definition

820
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.480
model after his father. He said to to look out

821
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:22.960
for you. Oh, let me aptognize this. He's he's a

822
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.840
father of stress. He tried something else which didn't really

823
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:29.119
catch on, called you stress. I mean stress is generally

824
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.679
a negative thing. You stress is a positive stress, which

825
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:36.079
we which it makes sense, and so he but what

826
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.119
he did is his his statement to himself is and

827
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:43.679
this is sort of egotistical looking out for yourself by

828
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.719
being necessary to others, thus earning their goodwill. Uh, I'm

829
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:51.920
not going to invent something that someone else says. But

830
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.440
I changed one word of Hans's thing, you know, which

831
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:58.320
to me works better for Frank Wagner. And the one

832
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.360
word is I'm going to just say what my is

833
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:06.159
looking out for myself by being useful to others, thus

834
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.960
earning their respect. So this is kind of my mantra.

835
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.760
If I had to stummarizer, this is beyond the checklist,

836
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.119
is you know, how would you describe yourself your identity?

837
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.320
So Frank, on that note, I want to thank you

838
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:23.639
for being such a wonderful teacher to me, a role model.

839
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:26.920
You do what you say, and you say what you do.

840
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.199
You're a person of deep, deep faith and integrity and

841
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:34.159
a role model for not only me, but so many

842
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:37.800
people across the globe. Thank you. So our next port

843
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:42.119
of call is going to be without a guest. I

844
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.679
had a guest, but he has a personal conflict, so

845
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:48.840
I will be talking about Messy Middle part two. I

846
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:53.320
hope that you take away at least one idea and

847
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:58.960
please consider applying it. I do endorse the daily checklist

848
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:03.840
and tried to crawl, then walk and then run, and

849
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:08.679
if you can, please remember to stay healthy, stay safe.

850
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:11.159
We need you. We're better together.

851
00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:15.079
It's Captain Dave on k for HD Radio. We invite

852
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:18.199
you to give yourself grace and grace the Messy Middle

853
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:21.239
and see you every Monday at n am Pacific time.

854
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:23.519
Until then, you got this